Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Resolution that has been placed
by my honourable friend before the House is a very limited
Resolution. It is meant only to fix the method of representation in
this Assembly for the representatives of the States, and not to deal
with the innumerable problems which the States have in common with the
rest of India. The learned Members who spoke before me mentioned
the case of one or two States where political struggles are going on.
Obviously, this Committee will have nothing to do with the internal
structure of the States. I hope that this matter will have to be
considered by us when the representatives of the States come. We can confer
with them and120 discuss and settle these matters. Presently,
we have only to consider the method of their representation.
The amendments that have140 been moved in
regard to members of the Depressed Classes or the Adivasis,
seem to ignore the fact that we160 are only considering
this limited problem. Obviously, the Depressed Classes have their particular
interests to be protected, but that question does not come in before this
Committee because this Committee represents that part of India which
is not the States. This Committee will meet the representatives of the
Rulers. I think there should have been representatives of the peoples of
the States on the Negotiating Committee. Even now, I think that if
the Negotiating Committee wants to do the right240
thing, it should include some such representatives but I feel that we
cannot insist upon this at this stage. Unless we appoint a committee
to negotiate this matter, the proper representation of representatives of the States
may not be secured. 280 Therefore, in this
Resolution we have said not only that we shall meet the
Negotiating Committee set up by the Chamber of Princes but also the
representatives of other States who are probably not included therein. As I
have320 already explained, the object of
our meeting them is to ensure a proper method of representation of people of the
States. If you try and think of the States as they are, you will see that apart
from some States which360 are big, there will
be many small States whom we may have to get represented by doing
some kind of grouping or some other way of representing them, because
for each State we may not be able to give one representative. Just see how
many States there are and how many will be required. States like
Hyderabad and Kashmir will420 get adequate
representation on the population basis. Some of the big States may get two,
three or four, but most of them just barely one. Many of them may not even
get that one. We may have to group them or devise some method. These are our
problems. Apart from these, no other problem affecting any particular class or
even480 affecting the internal structure of the
States will come up before this Committee. Those problems will have to come up before
this Assembly at a later stage, when the representatives of the States are
also here.
I submit that the question of any communal,
provincial or State group coming into this Committee will not arise. We
should take competent men who are here, but in this particular matter you
cannot enter into group representation, because if we do, there is560
no particular reason why we should deny that representation to the many
separate interests that exist here. If you take the Travancore State,
thinking only on religious lines, you will find a very great part of
the population of the600 State consists of Christians. Now,
Travancore is a very important State, the people of which have often
come into conflict with the Government authorities. Kashmir, of course,
is another important State. In this way, you will get into enormous
difficulty640
if you are going to think of people being represented on a communal
basis in this small Committee. Obviously, this committee ought to be a
small Committee because it will be very difficult to deal with the
representatives of the Rulers if it is a large committee. This Committee
should not be formed on the basis of separate interests, as700
suggested by some people. Now, Mr. Jaipal Singh Munda
made a statement, from which I beg to differ, and that720
is that the States Peoples’ Conference is not taking sufficient interest in
the Orissa States. The States Peoples’ Conference has not done all that it
should do because the problem is a vast one, but as a matter of fact the
Orissa States have been frequently before the States Peoples' Conference and
one of our members of the Standing Committee of the States Peoples' Conference
comes from there. Some of the amendments moved by other members say that
this final800 authority should remain with
this House. They agree, however, to withdraw them if the Chair could give a
ruling in this matter. I have no doubt in my mind that the final
decision on such matters should vest in this840 House, and
that this Committee should only be a Negotiating Committee, that it should
negotiate and report to this House. If this House does not agree
with anything that they have done, they have got to go back and
negotiate still further. Of course, in all such matters, a
certain discretion is given. For instance, you do give a large
measure of authority to your plenipotentiaries to go and negotiate
with other countries. The countries have got a right to accept or reject,
but normally speaking, when the representatives of two parties come
together and discuss a matter and come to an agreement, unless a vital
principle is involved, the agreement is accepted because third parties
are concerned in it.960 That will apply to our case also. This
Resolution contemplates three bodies, that is, a Negotiating Committee set up by980
this House, another Negotiating Committee set up by the Princes whose names
have been announced, and a third Committee consisting of other representatives
of the States. How are these bodies going to function and to reconcile
differences? Supposing the Princes take up one attitude and other
representatives of the States take up a different attitude, how are they going
to work? If I may reply to my honourable friend, that is exactly
the purpose of this Resolution. If there are differences of
opinion between various representatives of the States, we know
that differences of opinion will exist in this Assembly between1080
various sections of the people of India, as well as States and the people
of British India. This Resolution proposes to set up a body,
in which we have confidence, and it will deal with the
representatives of the States1120 who have been elected or
selected to a Negotiating Committee. It is precisely because this
house cannot be expected to enter into negotiations with the Rulers and
representatives of the peoples of States, and that is why this small
committee has been proposed.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am here to support the Resolution
as it stands and oppose all the amendments that have been moved. Most of
the points have been made by speakers who preceded me and I am1200
not going to repeat them. I want to draw the attention of the House
to one particular factor, and that is, the limit within which this Committee is
expected to work. In doing so, I would like to draw the attention of
the honourable Members to the exact wording in paragraph 19 of the
Cabinet Plan. You will be pleased1260 to observe that this Committee
is to enter into negotiation with the Negotiating Committee which has
already been selected1280 by the States or is likely to
be selected. It is very likely that the word "selection" will
have to be interpreted in several different ways. The representatives of
the States may probably place a different interpretation from the one we
may put on it and so on. So, it is not good tying the hands of this Committee one
way or the other or insisting on a particular method of representation. We
must leave it to the negotiators. So, I also submit that the amendment
directing what the Committee should do is out of order, because actually
it negatives the Resolution as a whole. When we want a committee to act
in a particular way, it will cease to be1400 a Negotiating Committee
because it will have to carry out a pre-determined dictate of
our own. We cannot afford to antagonize many sections of the people
of India. In spite of the feeling in this House that the
representatives of1440 the peoples of the States alone are
entitled to speak to us, we will have to approach the subject cautiously
and this Committee will have to work very cautiously. We should not prejudge or
prejudice the issue at this stage, and the Committee should be left to
itself to determine what is the best method of attaining the
object in view and serving the interests of the people of India as a whole
and those of the peoples of the States. If we want to comment on
their decisions, there will be ample opportunity for this House
to place our opinion before this House. So, I submit that the House
should pass the Resolution and that the amendments moved should be
withdrawn.1562
